the economy is a long, long way from being healthy. financial crises do enormous damage. and some of that is very difficult to prevent. but we also had a case in which while washington did i think objectively a very good job of responding to the crisis, in 2009, in 2010 and '11 they -- their glasses were a little rose colored and i think we shouldn't be too optimistic based on how many times we've been disappointed over the economy in the last couple years. >> what do you think about the research done by vince rhinehart and others suggesting when you have a recession, a deep recession, caused by a financial crisis, that the comeback is much more shallow and that the bounce back is not as immediate? >> that's right. so it's by carmen rhinehart and ken roguehoff. >> i got the names wrong. >> it's easy to conflate them. but it's really important. i mean what it shows is that a recession after a financial crisis tends to last years. typically the unemployment rate over all financial crises has risen more than five years. we are well ahead of that pace thanks to aggressive act